2021-10-07T08:36:24  <FreeVariableAdr4> https://news.opensuse.org/2021/10/07/new-survey-aims-to-gain-pack-main-insights/
2021-10-07T08:51:57  <krop> FreeVariableAdr4: do you have questions about the anonymous-but-definitely-not-anonymous packagers survey?
2021-10-07T10:55:40  <FreeVariableAdr4> <krop> "FreeVariable (Adrien): do you..." <- Beg your pardon?
2021-10-07T12:25:12  <krop> FreeVariableAdr4: read https://twitter.com/openSUSE/status/1446001677811785729
2021-10-07T12:27:26  <FreeVariableAdr4> krop: Thanks, I agree with the reply from the openSUSE twitter account.
2021-10-07T12:28:06  <FreeVariableAdr4> Respondents are invited to shy away from questions they feel would jeopardize their safety.
2021-10-07T12:28:21  <FreeVariableAdr4> s/safety/privacy/
2021-10-07T12:33:29  <FreeVariableAdr4> That said, there is room for discussion as to whether it was good to include the question about "Which group(s) do you belong to?". Even though this question creates a potential issue for privacy, we decided to include it to have a way of assessing how participation distributes over groups (it would be unfortunate to not be able to tell answers from, say, Uyuni contributors to those of, say, opensuse-maintainers).  
2021-10-07T12:34:22  <FreeVariableAdr4> s/That said, there is room for discussion as to whether it was good to include the question about "Which group(s) do you belong to?". Even though this question creates a potential issue for privacy, we decided to include it to have a way of assessing how participation distributes over groups (it would be unfortunate to not be able to tell answers from, say, Uyuni contributors to those of, say, opensuse-maintainers)./That said,
2021-10-07T12:34:22  <FreeVariableAdr4> there is room for discussion as to whether it was good to include the question "Which group(s) do you belong to?". Even though this question creates a potential issue for privacy, we decided to include it nonetheless so as to have a way of assessing how participation distributes over groups (it would be unfortunate to be unable to tell answers from, say, Uyuni contributors to those of, say, opensuse-maintainers).  /
2021-10-07T12:37:11  <krop> if one checks both gnome-maintainer +  opensuse-review-team, you know it's antlarr, if it's gnome-maintainer + systemd-maintainers, it can only be fcrozat.. 
2021-10-07T12:37:20  <krop> that's not exactly what I call anonymous
2021-10-07T12:38:04  <krop> ah, the first one could be DimStar as well :)
2021-10-07T12:38:57  <DimStar> krop: yeah - but latest when I had to give 'maintained project' and I added openSUSE:Factory, it is pretty much done with anon
2021-10-07T12:40:06  <krop> If I add any KDE repo + office, that can only be me, If I add any package I maintain outside KDE, the result is the same
2021-10-07T12:40:54  <DimStar> or: maintainer packages: vlc - who could that be
2021-10-07T12:43:07  <krop> hence the proposal to only mention how many repo and how many packages in other repos (counting the KDE and Qt packages takes too much time)
2021-10-07T12:47:16  <FreeVariableAdr4> <krop> "if one checks both gnome-..." <- We could have said: "this survey is conditionally anonymous, namely, if you choose not to answer certain optional questions", which is a bit clumsy. Or we could have said: "this survey is not anonymous" (implying that no combination of answer yields an anonymous result", which is false.  
2021-10-07T12:49:04  <FreeVariableAdr4> Some groups are small, and some are large, so anonymity depends on that. But again, if would make little sense to be blind to answers stemming from a few large groups in contrast to answers stemming from many smaller groups.
2021-10-07T12:49:43  <FreeVariableAdr4> It's just a compromise :)
2021-10-07T12:49:52  <FreeVariableAdr4> s/if/it/
2021-10-07T12:50:28  <krop> KDE is a large project but we're 4 maintainers. If I'm not the one to answer, that leaves only a few possibilities
2021-10-07T12:50:56  <FreeVariableAdr4>  * Some groups are small, and some are large, so anonymity depends on that. But again, it would be unfortunate to not be able to tell between:
2021-10-07T12:50:56  <FreeVariableAdr4> - answers from a few large groups; 
2021-10-07T12:50:56  <FreeVariableAdr4> - answers from many smaller groups.
2021-10-07T12:54:12  <FreeVariableAdr4> Also there are exactly 2 people who will access the raw data. It's not as if I wrote an ML-powered web crawler to extract all the personal views, opinions, preferences and tastes of certain high profile openSUSE users on Reddit and Discord. 
2021-10-07T12:54:33  <FreeVariableAdr4> * and Discord (which would not be difficult to do, in fact).
2021-10-07T13:03:56  <FreeVariableAdr4>  * Also there are exactly 2 people who will access the raw data. It's not as if I wrote an ML-powered web crawler to extract all the personal views, opinions, preferences and tastes of certain high profile openSUSE users on Reddit and Discord (which would not be difficult to do, in fact). 
2021-10-07T13:03:57  <FreeVariableAdr4> So even if it's not perfect, I don't think we are being unreasonable here.
2021-10-07T15:41:21  <FreeVariableAdr4> * I would put it like this:
2021-10-07T15:41:21  <FreeVariableAdr4> - they are exactly 2 people who will access the raw data
2021-10-07T15:41:21  <FreeVariableAdr4> - you lose anonymity as soon as you ask for the specific packages people maintain, because as soon as someone works on a package with few maintainers, it's easy to identify the person through api.opensuse.org, the more packages with few maintainers the person maintains, the more precise the inference will get
2021-10-07T15:41:21  <FreeVariableAdr4> - Board members reviewed the survey and advised for making the question about groups optional; we folowed this advice.
2021-10-07T15:41:35  <FreeVariableAdr4> * I would put it like this:
2021-10-07T15:41:35  <FreeVariableAdr4> - they are exactly 2 people who will access the raw data
2021-10-07T15:41:35  <FreeVariableAdr4> - you lose anonymity as soon as you ask for the specific packages people maintain, because as soon as someone works on a package with few maintainers, it's easy to identify the person through api.opensuse.org, the more packages with few maintainers the person maintains, the more precise the inference will get
2021-10-07T15:41:35  <FreeVariableAdr4> - Board members reviewed the survey and advised for making the question about groups optional; we followed this advice.
2021-10-07T16:40:59  <cboltz> malcolmlewis: can you please have a look at http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1191433 (forum login problems)?
2021-10-07T16:56:47  <malcolmlewis> cboltz, can't see the email, but don't know username so have responded in bug report...
2021-10-07T17:02:15  * malcolmlewis oops had to fix email address....
2021-10-07T17:06:42  <cboltz> you should see the reporter's mail address in bugzilla after logging in
2021-10-07T17:08:26  <cboltz> (if this was the problem - but after reading your response again, my last response probably wasn't too useful ;-)
2021-10-07T20:16:27  <cboltz> malcolmlewis: the welcome message on forums.o.o says   Be aware the forums do not accept user names with a dash "-"   - if this is true, it would explain the login problems because that username has a -
2021-10-07T20:29:54  <malcolmlewis> cboltz, that's the issue then... forgot about that, thanks for the info ;)